Curse

Arkantos · Jul 28, 2009, 08:29 AM // 08:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Show Some Skin

Its really cool you guys made this build, i should learn it so i can use on my rit

Can you use this build on HM missions? And can your heros run this as well?

Yes, the build is used for HM missions. And yes, it's a 3/6 hero build...

wiz12268 · Aug 01, 2009, 02:48 AM // 02:48

I fooled around with a few bars on my heroes and finally settled on these 2 for the rits...

Signet of spirits, bloodsong, agony, spirit rift,spitirt boon, splinter weapon, boom of creation and spirits gift. 14 channel 13 spawn. Microing signet helps with this one as if the spirtis don't die heroes won't recast just to gain power. But the intial use of skills is perfect.

Second is Aura of Lich, Summon bone minions, death nova, rejuventaion, sprits gift, explosive growth, boon of creation, Death pact signet. This one require no microing although they don't cast enchants all that efficiently, but almost doesn't matter. 12 death, 7 resto, 13 spawning

Third hero is Necro/Mo jagged bones, animate shambling horror, animate bone fiend, infuse condition, death nova, foul feast, sig of lost souls, last slot is either rez of some kind or patient spirit. 16 death 12 soul reaping 3 healing.

Main guy is I am the strongest barrage ranger.

But I have vanguished all of Elonia with this set up, and cleared all the tormented areas (that allow henchies) in hardmode as well. And also have vanquished all the Asuran areas and half the norn ones. Even tried it in slavers hard mode, with a ranger and winter it is a lot easier so maybe not a fair test, but it did as well as Sabway does in there. But microing and flagging is necessary, but I think that would be the case in there hardmode regardless

I do run a communing build on another toon, but the set up above seems to be the smoothest, definately causes the most damage. Haven't gotten Razah on my main ritualist yet, so haven't tried a 3 rit run yet. But I am sure that would be even smoother, although maybe a little harder to micro since on my ritualist I have to do more than spam one skill (like I do on my ranger with barrage).

But basically I have gtten completely away from Sab and discord builds since they gave the ritualists a little love. Maybe more for a change but I also think they offer a little more, definately offer more meat shileds, and with the power boost from the signet ritualists aren't nearly as power hungry as they sed to be, which was why necros were the "in" thing, never a power issue with them.

Daerious · Aug 02, 2009, 07:21 PM // 19:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by MercenaryKnight

I think we need a contest going around. Basically 1 human + 3 heroes/hench and then a 2 player + 6 hero contest.

While Vanquishing specific areas in HardMode (HM) might provide a suitable testing ground for different builds (and/or teams); perhaps using the various challenge missions (like Zos Shivros Channel) would be better.

Challenge missions:

1. Are generally shorter than a complete area vanquish
2. Contain a diverse spectrum of foes with a broad selection of skills
3. Require both strategy and tactics for obtaining higher scores
4. Provide rewards (in experience, gold, faction, etc.) for their completion
5. Have a record keeper which can independantly verify scores

- - - - -

Using them as a basis would allow a rough measurement of the advantages (and/or disadvantages) of making minor changes to the build/team. Does adding a superior rune to one of the heroes make a difference (either positive or negative) and how much? Which is better a necromancer using ritualist skills or a ritualist using necromancer skills?

Furthermore, other players can quickly repeat the trial using the same or other builds in an attempt to improve them and/or verify the results for themselves.

Jeydra · Aug 04, 2009, 12:01 AM // 00:01

Tried (a variant of) this build to H/H Shards of Orr HM, replacing the MM with a Smiter. Failed pretty badly. I was surprised how fast the defensive spirits crumbled to Eruption while the offensive spirits crumbled to Shield of Deflection, and how ineffective Shelter was at keeping the party alive - and that's with 16 Communing, 11 Spawning Power. Guess insufficient enchantment removal and the AI casting all spirits in the same location is a weakness of the build.

fenix · Aug 04, 2009, 12:37 AM // 00:37

In a zone like Shards of Orr, because there is so much AoE, you would have to flag heroes back, and pull aggro onto yourself, before pulling the monsters into spirit range, that way they have already cast AoE on you, rather than spirits.

Jeydra · Aug 04, 2009, 07:20 AM // 07:20

That's what I did. No Prot Spirit forced me to rely on Shelter, which died way too fast to be useful. Not to mention Lina has no idea how to heal (or prot), and the spirits couldn't kill targets fast enough given Shield of Deflection, and eventually aggro breaks and Eruption slaughters all the spirits, and even if it didn't Mhenlo and Lina can't keep me alive.

Sad.

Xenomortis · Aug 04, 2009, 10:19 PM // 22:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

Tried (a variant of) this build to H/H Shards of Orr HM, replacing the MM with a Smiter. Failed pretty badly. I was surprised how fast the defensive spirits crumbled to Eruption...

Shards of Orr is pretty nasty - it was slow going for me in NM so I'm not surprised HM was a failure case.
I don't know what you were running specifically, but I've found having two rits both with Shelter and Displacement is invaluable in harder areas. They seem to chain them reasonably.

JoeKnowMo · Aug 06, 2009, 02:43 AM // 02:43

Farkenway and Sabway/Discordway have trouble in SoO. You have to wipe enemies fast with AoE holy damage like RoJ.

Arkantos · Aug 06, 2009, 09:38 AM // 09:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeKnowMo

Farkenway and Sabway/Discordway have trouble in SoO. You have to wipe enemies fast with AoE holy damage like RoJ.

This is true.

HM SoO with those 3 hero builds is tough, but possible. However, in PvE you can change your builds. Since you know you're going against a shitton of undead, pack smiting monks, problem solved.

Dzjudz · Aug 25, 2009, 11:04 PM // 23:04

I've been playing with my rit char and 2 rit heroes the last few days and then I found this thread/teambuild. I just have a few observations based on my experience and looking at the build on pvx.

Heroes don't seem to know when to use Boon of Creation and Armor of Unfeeling. I use a communing hero similar the the one on the pvx page, and he often casts armor of unfeeling before casting any spirits and boon of creation after he finishes casting all his spirits. Also, Reclaim Essence is bugged in that the hero activates it upon recharge whenever any party member's spirit is in range. The only good thing is that in battle, he uses it only when the battle is over, thankfully.

I put Spirit to Flesh on the resto hero's bar, but I have never seen him use it by himself. I don't think heroes use it.

Also, the Restoration Rit #2 on the pvx page has spirit siphon with [email protected], which would only net him a gain of 1 energy upon casting. Not very handy.

Sadly, heroes don't seem to know how to use many rit skills. They let Mighty was Vorizun wear off before recasting, often losing all energy and not being able to cast anything. They don't know when to use Signet of Ghostly Might, similar to Armor of Unfeeling.

Rit heroes are fun, but before such usage bugs are fixed, we are better off running our trusty old sab/discord builds. The energy management of rits not speccing into channeling just isn't very good. Heroes don't have spirit mobility aside from using Reclaim Essence, which takes up an elite slot and heroes don't even use it properly. In my opinion heroes should regard Boon of Creation the same way as the attunements from the ele lines, they should keep it up constantly.

In conclusion, running spiritway builds is fun, but it's not very effective (unless you like a lot of microing).

Edit: I've been trying Ritual Lord instead of Reclaim Essence on my communing rit now. Mobility is very good now (67% faster recharge is a lot), but energy management still has issues.

Edit2: I've been tinkering and tinkering some more and I think I might have judged too soon. My spiritway is running pretty good now. I'm a rit myself and I'm using 2 rit heroes and a necro. The communing hero still has a little trouble managing his energy, but the resto hero is doing great.

madriel222 · Aug 26, 2009, 01:43 PM // 13:43

My friend not having the two rit heroes yet (I know, inexcusable XD), we took the one man team along with three discord necros (myself an imbagon, my buddy running earthshaker) into Vloxen Excavations HM. I cannot believe how smoothly it went! Aside from a wipe on the necro boss, which was completely the minions fault I swear XD, we completely steamrolled it. So, I'll have to give my seal of approval on that one man/three hero version.

Later down the line, I tried the six hero/two player version with me playing my rit and a friend on his dragon slash warrior. To be completely honest, it works, but I can't help but think it could work even better. In my opinion, there needs to be something that sets the ritualist restos apart from the more "traditional" necromancer restos. There's nothing on either of those bars that a necro with infinite energy (and you definitely supply that with the two minion bombers) can't do better. I hate recommending things in the meta because I want more people to break out of it, so I guess the rits should be fine if they spam spirit siphon. Sort of difficult to tell with a constant SY! up, as the rits won't have to heal that much anyway. Most of the time I haven't found recuperation worth it while you're packing rejuvenation, maybe try PwK or even vengeful weapon in that slot? That'd also save your elite slot on that resto, because the only skill with a long enough recharge to warrant reclaim essence would be out of the picture. Just thinking outloud.

Thanks for putting the idea out there, I know a bunch of my friends have had fun with your build ^_^

Dzjudz · Aug 26, 2009, 03:06 PM // 15:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by madriel222

My friend not having the two rit heroes yet (I know, inexcusable XD), we took the one man team along with three discord necros (myself an imbagon, my buddy running earthshaker) into Vloxen Excavations HM. I cannot believe how smoothly it went! Aside from a wipe on the necro boss, which was completely the minions fault I swear XD, we completely steamrolled it. So, I'll have to give my seal of approval on that one man/three hero version.

Later down the line, I tried the six hero/two player version with me playing my rit and a friend on his dragon slash warrior. To be completely honest, it works, but I can't help but think it could work even better. In my opinion, there needs to be something that sets the ritualist restos apart from the more "traditional" necromancer restos. There's nothing on either of those bars that a necro with infinite energy (and you definitely supply that with the two minion bombers) can't do better. I hate recommending things in the meta because I want more people to break out of it, so I guess the rits should be fine if they spam spirit siphon. Sort of difficult to tell with a constant SY! up, as the rits won't have to heal that much anyway. Most of the time I haven't found recuperation worth it while you're packing rejuvenation, maybe try PwK or even vengeful weapon in that slot? That'd also save your elite slot on that resto, because the only skill with a long enough recharge to warrant reclaim essence would be out of the picture. Just thinking outloud.

Thanks for putting the idea out there, I know a bunch of my friends have had fun with your build ^_^

Yes, that 2nd restoration rit should be completely overhauled. Boon of Creation and Reclaim Essence are wasted on only 2 spirits and Spirit Siphon is useless on that bar as it is. Boon of Creation at 13 spawning power needs two spirits casts before it has its own energy cost back, and heroes don't use it properly anyway.

I'll post what I'm currently using with 4-man: (PvXDecode to see them)

Me, channeling: OACjAyiM5QXTlTRb+gQTVT0gMTA
14 channeling, 13 communing, 4 spawning

Communing hero: OACjAyhDJPBzN338xFOhmOzLGA
14 communing, 13 spawning, 4 restoration

Restoration hero: OACjEyiJZSYbUbjTciTOYMMTJXA
14 restoration, 10 channeling, 10 spawning

MM hero: OANDUsldSLVVVVBoBKgbhTfGNA
16 death, 10 soul reaping, 9 healing

I put painful bond on myself since heroes don't use it well (at all?).

Sometimes I micro the communing hero's Boon of Creation. Ritual Lord is great at recharging the spirits to increase mobility. Energy management is a little problematic still.

I put Spirit Siphon on the restoration rit for energy management. As the previous poster said, a N/Rt just has much better energy management with soul reaping and SoLS

. Spirit Siphon doesn't always get used right, but with this many spirits on the ground, this hero hasn't run out of energy yet. I didn't put in Mend Body And Soul, but rather WoR for condition removal. I think heroes use this elite better than Xinrae's Weapon. I didn't put splinter weapon on myself at [email protected] but rather on this hero at [email protected] Personal choice, I think heroes are better at putting it on minions etc than I am. PwK doesn't give enough of a heal imo and it removes the equipped weapon of the hero so I didn't put it in the build.

The MM is a Jagged Bones bomber with hex removal and a little party healing. Since the rits lack hex removal I put it on the 3rd hero. If you have some other form of hex removal or don't need it, you can change this to prot and use prot spirit and aegis or something.

The problem with this build is currently that it needs a rit player for superior spirit power (SoS, painful bond, etc)

Biofobico · Sep 10, 2009, 11:21 AM // 11:21

Just made Tombs HM with 2 man version with a mesmer guildie running an interrupt build and me as a monk AP caller. Done without any wipe and pulling almost every single big mob around the way. Flawless "run"

P.D - since Im a monk I might try to run a smiter build cause i dont think a AP caller really necessary.

My two cents...

Urass · Sep 11, 2009, 04:41 AM // 04:41

I tested the 1 man Spiritway build and found that as the battle moves forward (mostly driven by mindless minions), the spirit heros are unable to keep the spirits engaged by also moving them forward. Not sure how to deal with that.

Tijger · Sep 15, 2009, 09:42 PM // 21:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urass

I tested the 1 man Spiritway build and found that as the battle moves forward (mostly driven by mindless minions), the spirit heros are unable to keep the spirits engaged by also moving them forward. Not sure how to deal with that.

Yes, I have noticed that too, I've found it helpful to keep the heroes flagged back and just letting the minions go and pull any aggro carefully closer on to ourselves (2 wars).

It can lead to overaggro but so far we've done pretty good on this build, we had to swap one resto rit out for a monk due to the fact that my wife doesnt have Razah unlocked and in Shards we swapped the first Necro out for a smiting monk with RoJ.

Btw, I've noticed the AI seems to fail to comprehend the AoE from RoJ, is that something you guys have seen too?

fenix · Sep 18, 2009, 05:26 AM // 05:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dzjudz

Yes, that 2nd restoration rit should be completely overhauled. Boon of Creation and Reclaim Essence are wasted on only 2 spirits and Spirit Siphon is useless on that bar as it is. Boon of Creation at 13 spawning power needs two spirits casts before it has its own energy cost back, and heroes don't use it properly anyway.

If you had read the thread, then you wouldn't be having issues. Reclaim does what it does because there is a bug. Give your heroes a staff, and problem solved.

As for it being a 'waste' with only 2 spirits, we bring it not for the energy (energy is loleasy to maintain with Boon), but because it recharges the spirits.

Fully recharged spirits means you can constantly be moving through mobs, instead of waiting for recharges.

So yeah...next time read a little first.

MercenaryKnight · Sep 19, 2009, 01:57 AM // 01:57

Is there any chance that they will update the ai to use reclaim essence properly without needing a staff? Or if anyone can describe what issues happen if they don't have a staff?

Dzjudz · Sep 19, 2009, 12:57 PM // 12:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenix

If you had read the thread, then you wouldn't be having issues. Reclaim does what it does because there is a bug. Give your heroes a staff, and problem solved.

I have staves on my heroes, but you must admit that that doesn't solve all problems. First of all, heroes use RE whenever spirits are available, even when they're not his. The exception is in battle, thankfully. Boon of Creation is often cast after heroes are finished casting spirits.

Quote:

As for it being a 'waste' with only 2 spirits, we bring it not for the energy (energy is loleasy to maintain with Boon), but because it recharges the spirits.

Boon of Creation with 2 spirits, one 15 and one 25 energy? First off, BoC needs 2 spirit casts to get its own energy cost back, and it makes the spirits after that effectively cost 10 and 20 energy.

I think a better solution would be to move Rejuvenation and Life from Resto#1 to Resto#2 and remove Recuperation from #2 (I don't think the cost of Recuperation weighs up to the advantages). Spirit Siphon can be removed to make space (honestly, you must admit that Spirit Siphon at 3 Channeling is completely useless). This way Boon of Creation and Reclaim Essence make much more sense (Life and Rejuvenation spammable = yay).

This frees up 3 spots on Resto#1 (Boon of Creation can be removed since the spirits are on resto#2).

Any thoughts on this proposal?

Quote:

So yeah...next time read a little first.

I did read, I'm just trying to be constructive to create better builds, since in my opinion the builds can be improved. Keep up the good work though, I love ritualists.

Fragile Feeling · Sep 21, 2009, 01:25 AM // 01:25

Alright, so I've been reading through the thread and thank you very much for posting these builds guys, they look great. My question is what would a human monk run for the 1 man build? Would you heal and support the team? Would you run an AP caller build and help take down targets? or Would you run your own Mo/Rt build?

Kotoso · Sep 21, 2009, 08:43 PM // 20:43

I thought of this a few days ago, but I am too lazy to test it. Shelter -> Union-> Healing Seed -> Seed of Life -> (Optional) Healing Hands.

If the spirits don't die too fast or something else I can't predict going horribly wrong, the Healing Seed can heal any balled up heros and spirits, and Seed of Life can top off the party about as well as a Feast of Souls after a Signet of Spirits. Unfortunately, it takes up a lot of space on a player's bar.

*Edit* Oh, forgot about Seed of Life being powered by divine favor. Not worth the trouble to put it on one bar.